GG LINKS: Mid-July 2009

Some items of interest:

• The La Familia "mini-cartel" launched a series of hit and run commando attacks on Mexican military/police positions in Michoacan (to protest the arrest of a founder).  The 10 hour spree, replete with assault rifles and grenades, left five dead and a dozen wounded.  
• Naxiliate global guerrillas (nominally marxist) killed 27 police in India.
• Old Russian tech.  Mobile nuclear power plants. 
• MEND:  "The plague of sabotage descended heavily on major Shell and Agip crude trunk lines in Bayelsa state."
• GGs in Canada.  EnCana natural gas pipelines under attack. The Royal Canadian Mounted police, unable to find the individuals/groups launching the attacks, are getting aggressive. Pics of blast sites.
• Militia hacking group broadcasts their message against exploit disclosure by hacking an image hosting service.  One method of modern broadcasting is to turn all the links of a image hosting service into links to your image (although, in this case the image was lame).
• Something Awful vs. Sarah Palin.  Pwn pics of Trig.  Hacking politics is going to be a participatory sport.
• Teen media habits.  Right on. 
• Preventing another Mumbai, pg. 4 (Sullivan and Elkus).   Highlights:  Need for a police "operational art" vs. tactical focus. VoIP command and control node (via NJ VoIP provider, Vonage?) for Mumbai attackers.  The use of swarm "pulsing" -- rapidly changing point of attack -- to confuse police.
• Crashing Tehran's electricity grid.   
• Cyber attack?  The US government, Stratfor and others are hyperventilating, claiming it to be the work of the North Korean Government.   Essentially, there is a 50,000 PC botnet (using old software) in Asia doing the DDoS attacks against US and S Korean websites.  This is most definitely something a single individual could pull off (old thinking: only a government could do this... new thinking: superempowered individuals are more than capable).  The government/consultant cyberwar crowd can't seem to move beyond the state vs. state vision of cyberwarfare (not sure how you fix this mindset, it's so pervasive with those over 40 -- exactly the same guys about to spend tens of billions of a cyberwar boondoggle).
• Egypt:  al Qaeda cell of 26 engineers and technicians were arrested in conjunction with a planned attack on the Suez canal and a major oil pipeline. Again, searching for global systempunkts.
• Jeff Vail might want to spend some time on Cyberwarfare -- given his talent at writing about global guerrillas in Nigeria. 
• French car workers threaten to blow up plant. 
• Shake and bake meth -- single container/mobile cooking. 
• Video game, Modern Warfare 2, includes working Night Vision goggles in its prestige edition. 

Comments

[Jp]

This is the 2nd time you've linked to SA in the past few weeks. Let me warn you: While trollsites are a lot of fun to read they'll eventually sap your will to live. I speak, sadly, from experience.

STAY AWAY FROM 4CHAN.

[g48]

John, I hate to say this but the quality of discussion here has really been degenerating lately.

In one of the columns on the China riots we see a mix of overt sociopathy and fascism, including favorable references to machine-gunning protesters and including thinly-veiled white supremacist remarks. Then the whole thing spirals down into political bickering and overt trolling, to the point where it's not even worth reading to see if anyone has a truly pertinent comment.

If this was my blog I'd start banning some of those users, or introducing a feedback system similar to Daily Kos such that they can be troll-rated into oblivion.

--

A hopefully pertinent comment about the China situation:

This appears to follow the dynamics of oldfashioned race riots.

1) A rumor circulates that a member of a minority has raped a member of a majority (rape is a classic trigger for these sorts of things; white racists in the US south used "black man rapes white woman" imagery quite a bit in their own times).

2) Members of the majority take revenge by lynching members of the minority.

3) The minority explodes into riot mode, including violence against uninvolved persons.

4) The state, affiliated with the majority ethnicity, uses the apparatus of repression against the minority.

5) The minority now has a grievance against the state, regardless of whatever crimes its own people committed against innocent members of the majority during the riots.

6) The minority's present grievance against the state becomes combined with whatever other grievances the minority has against the state, and becomes a freedom struggle.

The only difference in this case is that both sides are also at war in cyberspace, and using the tools of modern communications technology.

The lessons to be learned from the cyber-skirmishes here, are not breakthroughs or paradigm-shifters, but more along the lines of seeking to test existing hypotheses about how governments and peoples use these technologies to serve their own goals in the fight.

For some reason all of this sounds familiar in a deja-vu sort of way. Though, I have no knowledge of USG interest in the present conflict (aside perhaps from those in the intel community whose job is to watch this stuff). Contrast to Iran, where the State Department was all over it to the point of asking Twitter to not shut down for nightly maintenance.

I am also somewhat doubtful that the Uighurs will introduce any substantial tactical (much less strategic) innovations here.

The primary item of interest here from the American point of view is that the Uighurs have pre-existing legitimate grievances with the Chinese government, similar to the situation with any minority that has faced official and unofficial discrimination. So this translates to a situation of minority rights, amplified by the overall picture of human rights and freedom in China. Which, for pragmatic reasons concerning the relative values of US and Chinese currency, are being downplayed.

That plus the fact that there's almost nothing the US could do to have a beneficial impact on the situation. Contrast to Iran, where pro-Western students take even the slightest hint of encouragement from the US as a major boost for their cause.

[g48]

Mobile Russian nuclear power plants: VERY interesting, I want one for my neighborhood.

These would be excellent for use with wind sites that have seasonal intermittency issues (good wind part of the year, spotty wind part of the year): roll the nuke into the site during the poor wind season, to supply make-up power to compensate for spotty wind.

Then during the windy season at that site, pack up the nuke and move it to another site that's having its off season.

One could do likewise with using them to balance solar in the northern areas during the dark winter months.

And they are also a good solution for restoring power to localized areas in a wider-scale grid outage, for example from sabotage or terrorism.

Unfortunately these things will probably go nowhere in the USA since NIMBYs will freak out about anything nuclear on the roads. France on the other hand, maybe.

--

That said, this item about bombings of natgas pipelines in Canada is highly disturbing. I'm going to bet it's a lone wolf attack. One or at most two people doing the deeds. This is going to be difficult to catch, and UAV patrols seem like the most productive way to go about it.

--

Mumbai item: I'll get to that tomorrow...

[abprosper]

The entire world is stuck in the "big/central" mentality and this pervades not only the cyberwar guys but the education system and social welfare systems as well.

Fixing it is pretty much impossible till the old die off or some kind of age driven reforms are put in places.
The first will certainly happen, hopefully before its too late but as for the later, in an aging world its pretty unlikely.

We still have WW2 and Korean generation people in office in the US after all.

[Al Eggen]

A different take on the China/Uighur situation by Engdahl:
http://321energy.com/editorials/engdahl/engdahl071509.html

[WarLord]

Re Korean Cyber attacks

Schneier on Security North Korean Cyberattacks:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/north_korean_cy.html

"...Poke at any of these international incidents, and what you find are kids playing politics..."

Read it, sensible stuff about security

[dagezhu]

"Then the whole thing spirals down into political bickering and overt trolling, to the point where it's not even worth reading to see if anyone has a truly pertinent comment. "

'Ask not for whom the net trolls ... it trolls for thee.'

Note that one of the comments was from a Chinese cyber-militia. The lack of moderation enabled an instructive example of Chinese activism. So there are some positive benefits of the near-anarchy.

As for pertinent discussion: I think Engdahl is pertinent.

So far two of us have quoted Engdahl's article. If three more people link it, I'll call it "the wisdom of crowds." I am proud to say that I scooped Al Eggen, although the 321gold site is probably a better source of commentary than globalresearch.

[Cavolonero]

Maybe this IS why we can't have nice things ...

[Marcello]

"In one of the columns on the China riots we see a mix of overt sociopathy and fascism, including favorable references to machine-gunning protesters"

Well, you have a billion plus population with a lot of ethnic minorities, a long tradition of political disintegration and an industrial revolution shaking up things.
Maybe you believe that you can keep everything together playing mr. nice guy but it is not going to happen.
Sooner or later somebody is going to ask for independence on ethnic grounds, then some overambitious local party boss will want to carve up its own little fiefdom...
End result: political disintegration, economic and military weakness and no improvement in terms of democracy or human rights.
Such centrifugal tendencies have to be stopped immediately at the earliest possible phase by whatever means necessary and there is no point in sugar coating such things when calling them.

[The Dark Avenger]

Such centrifugal tendencies have to be stopped immediately at the earliest possible phase by whatever means necessary and there is no point in sugar coating such things when calling them.

Thank you, Comrade Lenin.

Comrade Trotsky, any thoughts?

[g48]

It wasn't DPRK, and that's all I'm going to say about that at the moment.

Bruce Schneier's column was a disappointment, as was another of his recently (what'up with that?).

People need to avoid jumping to belligerent conclusions, lest they play into the hands of others who plan further ahead.

[g48]

Re. playing nice:

Yes, you can, and often with better results than from playing mean.

Obama acknowledged US involvement in the 1958 Iran coup, and within weeks, Iran is in the early stages of revolution.

Apologizing or almost-apologizing is an example of playing nice. The fact that the legitimacy of the Iran regime has now become forfeit, is an example of results.

War in Iraq: expensive as hell.
A few words about Iran: pennies.
New Iranian revolution: priceless!

[Marcello]

"Yes, you can, and often with better results than from playing mean."

The USSR did exactly that.
Net result: power passed in the hands of the likes of Karimov, Lukashenko and company. Not exactly five star democrats in case you had not heard these names before. It is a safe bet that the rulers of independent Tibet or Shangai won't be better.

"Iran is in the early stages of revolution."

Yeah, right...
Listen: a few kids letting off some steam a revolution don't make, even if it looks cool in the western press.
Do we want to make a bet? The theocracy will still be there next year and the one after that.I have been hanging around here for years and I plan going on. If there is going to be be a revolution in Iran I will come here beating my head.
But it won't happen.

[Marcello]

"Thank you, Comrade Lenin.
Comrade Trotsky, any thoughts?"

Look, you can call me with the names of all the members of the Politburo. It does not matter.
If you don't want to face the unpleasant reality that sometimes there are only unpleasant options to choose from, believe what you want.

[The Dark Avenger]

If you don't want to face the unpleasant reality that sometimes there are only unpleasant options to choose from, believe what you want.

My mother was a guest of the Japanese Imperial Army during the WWII, she saw a Chinese guerrilla get buried alive by some of the guards, so forgive me if I'm not as wasteful of human life because I know some of the consequences of such thinking.

Mr. Hoover, the floor is yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

The self-named Bonus Expeditionary Force was an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers — 17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups, who protested in Washington, D.C., in spring and summer of 1932. Called the Bonus March by the news media, the Bonus Marchers were more popularly known as the Bonus Army. It was led by Walter W. Waters, a former Army sergeant. The veterans were encouraged in their demand for immediate cash-payment redemption of their service certificates by retired U.S.M.C. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, one of the most popular military figures of the time.

The war veterans, many of whom had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression, sought immediate cash payment of Service Certificates granted to them eight years earlier via the Adjusted Service Certificate Law of 1924. Each Service Certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment, plus compound interest. The problem was that the certificates (like bonds), matured twenty years from the date of original issuance, thus, under extant law, the Service Certificates could not be redeemed until 1945.

........................
On 28 July, 1932, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the police evacuation of the Bonus Army veterans, who resisted; the police shot at them, and killed two. When told of the killings, President Hoover ordered the U.S. Army to effect the evacuation of the Bonus Army from Washington, D.C.

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, Fort Myer, Virginia, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of Civil Service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans. The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honour, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton charged the cavalry against them — an action which prompted the Civil Service employee spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"

After the cavalry charge, infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, entered the Bonus Army camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River, to their largest camp; President Hoover ordered the Army assault stopped, however, Gen. MacArthur—feeling this free-speech exercise was a Communist attempt at overthrowing the U.S. Government—ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Hundreds of veterans were injured, several were killed — including William Hushka and Eric Carlson; a veteran's wife miscarried; and many other veterans were hurt.

The Posse Comitatus Act — forbidding civilian police work by the U.S. military — did not apply to Washington, D.C., because it is the federal district directly governed by the U.S. Congress (U.S. Constitution, Article I. Section 8. Clause 17). The exemption was created because of an earlier "Bonus March". In 1781, most of the Continental Army was demobilized without pay, two years later, in 1783, hundreds of Pennsylvania war veterans marched on Philadelphia, surrounded the State House wherein Congress was in session, and demanded their pay. The U.S. Congress fled to Princeton, New Jersey, and, several weeks later, the U.S. Army expelled the war veterans back to home, out of the national capital.

An infant, Bernard Myers, later died in the hospital after the incident but reports indicated the death was not caused by the evacuation of the BEF.

............................

After his election, Franklin D. Roosevelt, offered members of the Bonus Army work building the Overseas Highway in the Florida Keys. In 1936 Congress, overriding Roosevelt's veto, allowed the veterans to redeem their certificates early.

[The Dark Avenger]

A look from the front:

Sure, I’m a bit disappointed but there is still hope. And while we wait, let me tell you about one particular incident that caught my attention: a shootout this past May in Apodaca between soldiers and Zetas, in which a Zeta comandante, “El Colosio”, was whisked away to safety right in the nick of time by a bunch of municipal cops.

It’s been pretty obvious to everyone in Monterrey that the Zetas controlled the cops, but until the Apodaca shootout, it was never really “proven.” But this incident finally shut up all the disbelievers, showing that cops here have no shame anymore, if they ever had any to begin with (not).

Some days after the scuffle, the Army captured the municipal cop, called “El Tiburon”, who rescued the commander and drove him to a waiting hummer. El Tiburon would kick off a chain of revelations which showed how far and deep the collusion between organized crime and the Monterrey metropolitan police really was.

Then, the federal operations against the police started. And this time, the soldiers weren’t just shaking cops down, looking for rifles and bribe money and other compromising crap. No, this time, they had the entire dossier on the Monterrey police force: names and ranks of the crooked cops who were on the Zeta’s payroll. In all, around 100 cops were arrested.

http://exiledonline.com/black-june-in-mexico-death-and-corrupt-cops/#more-10479

[Marcello]

"My mother was a guest of the Japanese Imperial Army during the WWII, she saw a Chinese guerrilla get buried alive by some of the guards, so forgive me if I'm not as wasteful of human life because I know some of the consequences of such thinking."

See, here you are staring precisely at the heart of the problem as far the chinese are concerned. The last time they were weak and divided they went under. They are not willing to make that mistake again. It may cost some blood every now and then but for the time being it is unavoidable and less bloody than the alternatives anyway.

[The Dark Avenger]

You can keep it up your justifications about the use of force in maintaining order, but unlike the past, with the technology to document such actions being truly irrepressable these days as we've seen from Iran and China recently,such things will only weaken internal support and divide external support for a regime that uses such tactics.

If you haven't learned that by reading this site by now, you might as well quit reading because you display little understanding about what John is writing here. You'd do better studying Egyptian Old Kingdom pottery, or editing Wikipedia articles as a more productive use of your time.

[Patrick]

This article claims the recent cyber attacks were from UK servers.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10286203-83.html

[Greg Burton]

la familia and the Michuacuan situation - troops ordered into the state, Federales mobilizing 5,000 troops and police. They're being reassigned from Ciudad Juarez, apparently.

Two items in passing from news articles - stratcap doesn't consider them a major threat, and claims they have "interal divisions" based on which of three border cartels la familia members are aligned with. On the other hand, a DEA spokesperson says they have verified contacts for la familia in 30 American cities.

To me this reads that they aren't conflicted "internal divisions". It sounds like a multi-channel meth distribution strategy.

[daskro]

Concise and thoughtful analysis on the cyber issue!

[Marcello]

"If you haven't learned that by reading this site by now, you might as well quit reading because you display little understanding about what John is writing here. You'd do better studying Egyptian Old Kingdom pottery, or editing Wikipedia articles as a more productive use of your time."

John is excellent at creating scenarios and making thought provoking predictions but frankly in the last couple of years several of them have been somewhat off mark.
The iraqi insurgency did not reboot; several small states have fared spectacularly worse than the big ones so far in the recession and neither the chechens nor anybody elselse are holding Russia by oil jugular.
But if you prefer an echo chamber, fine.

"unlike the past, with the technology to document such actions being truly irrepressable these days as we've seen from Iran and China recently,such things will only weaken internal support and divide external support for a regime that uses such tactics."

Technology may be "irrepressable" now but people are still people.
Even if it is on youtube or twitter the rest of the world can still fundamentally not give a crap about your cause and the vast majority of your countrymen can still want to put you down.

[Laszlo Kovacs]

In regards to the night vision goggles, the Eyeclops Goggles, normally sold around $80-90 were being discontinued at WalMart and Target and can be found there for 47$. About a 1/6 the price of ‘real’ gear. I got a couple for my next film project just for the look but let me say they work as advertised.

Makes me wonder how many found themselves in the hands of stalker ex-boyfriends or trainee border-militiamen.

[JR]

Marcello,

While I haven't been 100% spot on, the record for the global guerrilla models of conflict developed here are surprising good. Regardless, predication isn't the point: helping people think through complex issues is.

In regards to Iraq: The US adopted open source counter-insurgency and it has worked well (per my 1995 NYTimes Op-Ed). Until that happened, an insurgency was unstoppable, particularly since standard COIN didn't work. Same holds true for Afghanistan.

The growth of insurgency in Mexico, Nigeria, and Pakistan are generally right on track.

The posts on the disruption of Saudi and Russian oil/gas production and the impact of an attack on Iran were merely exercises in scenario thinking that I used to demonstrate the potential of systems disruption as a method of warfare (not predications) and a warning to planners/readers.

The numerous posts on large and ongoing shocks, including the the global financial panic was right on the mark (scarily so). Further, the rise of a parasitic group in the financial markets (only recently being realized by many) and the disruption this will cause (and will continue to cause) is right on.

Anyway, thanks for the pushback.

PS: In regards to Resilient Communities, that's a long term play...

[Duncan Kinder]

Movements toward RC's could be assoicated with ethnic strife/disorder.

See, eg:

Kosovo Serb Sub-Station Seized

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/21257/

"The Kosovo Electricity Corporation, KEK, has taken control of an electricity sub-station in Strpce municipality, previously under the aegis of Serbia's EPS, Radio Television Serbia reports.

Sub-station foreman Tinko Davidovic told Serbia’s B92 television station that KEK workers, had expelled 14 EPS workers from the station, which provides power to Serb-majority areas.

“KEK workers turned up and, with the help of Kosovo police officers, having cut through the chains on the gate and doors, entered the facility from which we were expelled,“ B92 quoted Davidovic as saying.

Residents of the municipality have been without electricity for more than three weeks and have agreed, in negotiations with KEK representatives, to make initial payments of €26 per household for the resumption of supply.

However, no payments have yet been made, as there has been no agreement concluded on who the payments should be made to. Additionally, locals were refusing to allow the KEK to take control of the electricity sub-station."

[The Dark Avenger]

Even if it is on youtube or twitter the rest of the world can still fundamentally not give a crap about your cause and the vast majority of your countrymen can still want to put you down.

Perhaps that would be true for the elites, but there are ordinary people who aren't interested with dealing with governments who demonstrate the level of brutality seen in the recent response to peaceful demonstrations in Iran.

Because Siemens sold services and software to Iran that can help the government monitor communications, they are having their bid to make light rail cars for the MTA of Los Angeles held up to greater scrutiny because of the recent demonstrations over the election results there.

But if you prefer an echo chamber, fine.

Sorry, but intelligent feedback is preferable to drivel that echos Napoleons' "Whiff of grapeshot" remark that you seem to think is a contribution to dialog here.

[The Dark Avenger]

BTW, the potential for mob violence doesn't diminish even when those in power are willing to use machine guns:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-mob27-2009jul27,0,3235364.story

Chinese state media confirmed Monday that a steel factory executive was beaten to death after thousands of workers gathered to protest the takeover of their company.

Chen Guojun, an executive at Jianlong Steel Holding Co., died Friday after an angry mob in the northeastern rust belt city of Tonghua beat him and then blocked ambulances from reaching him, according to the China Daily.

The protesters worked at the state-owned Tonghua Iron and Steel Group, which was going to be sold to Chen's privately owned Jianlong Steel. Chen sparked the riot by announcing 30,000 workers would be laid off, the newspaper said.

[Marcello]

"Because Siemens sold services and software to Iran that can help the government monitor communications, they are having their bid to make light rail cars for the MTA of Los Angeles held up to greater scrutiny because of the recent demonstrations over the election results there."

Actually in the Iran case there is a considerable èlite (government, mass media) interest to put pressure on that country, in case you overlooked it. Both for political reasons and because western looking kids giving the finger to Ahmadinejad sell well in the press and to the public opinion.

A bunch of muslim rioters in China?
Not so fashionable for the media, the public opinion and not high priority on the political agenda (for now, later it may become desiderable to put pressure on China too).

Consider also the following:
Israel has been doing a lot of similar or worse things to palestinians for a pretty long time.
The collective whining of the world public opinion (the ones who give a damn about such things, at least) or the ineffectual boycotts haven't stopped them.
They have a rather powerful friend...

"Sorry, but intelligent feedback is preferable to drivel that echos Napoleons' "Whiff of grapeshot" remark that you seem to think is a contribution to dialog here."

For your enlightement you might want to consider what the people who got on the wrong end of the cannons that day were actually standing for: small hint, it was definitively not Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité.

As a further food for thought you might want to consider for example what happened the last time someone tried to secede from the US.
Further some reflection how such a thing might be seen by the average chinese when some feel good westerner lectures him on how he should basically let his country fall apart in the name of self determination.

"BTW, the potential for mob violence doesn't diminish even when those in power are willing to use machine guns"

Some mob violence is inevitable in that contest: we are talking about what happened in the UK in the 19th century scaled up by several orders of magnitude. It was not painless then and it is not now.

What one wants to avoid is a collapse of the political system in absence of a workable alternative and a disintegration in smaller entities.
Neither scenario has resulted in many happy endings in the USSR and there is not reason to assume it will be better in China.

[The Dark Avenger]

"The collective whining of the world public opinion (the ones who give a damn about such things, at least) or the ineffectual boycotts haven't stopped them.
They have a rather powerful friend..."

Then why is Obama putting pressure on the Israelis to stop the settlements. Is
that what a rather powerful friend does?

A bunch of muslim rioters in China?
Not so fashionable for the media, the public opinion and not high priority on the political agenda (for now, later it may become desiderable to put pressure on China too).

The Turks aren't cool with it, and if they manage to get into the EU, they will not change their attitude one bit, ask a descendant of the Armenian disporta for further details.

Also, is anyone listening to the Chinese as they squawk about the Uirgur leader doing a world tour?

As noted in the article below, the Japanese have basically ignored the Chinese concern about her.

For your enlightement you might want to consider what the people who got on the wrong end of the cannons that day were actually standing for: small hint, it was definitively not Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité.

Oh, nowhere did I imply that it was an unjust act or ineffective act the time, it's just old-fashioned, the phlogiston theory of strategy that is made false by technical achievements in machinery and thinking, try asking Napoleon how to deal with MEND in Nigeria.

"Know your enemy as you know yourself, and you will be untouched in a thousand battles."

As a further food for thought you might want to consider for example what happened the last time someone tried to secede from the US.

That was an imbalance of a productive industrial economy in the North Vs. the agricultural-based economy of the South that could raise capital. Since, to give an example, Texas would lose 1 billion dollars of federal money for Pell grants if they did secede forget , the question becomes, is the game worth the candle.

"Further some reflection how such a thing might be seen by the average chinese when some feel good westerner lectures him on how he should basically let his country fall apart in the name of self determination."

No, I would inform them that the attempted colonization of the Uigur region is doomed to failure, and in this case it's perhaps better to lose land than lose the native population along with the land as they seem hell-bent on doing at the present time.

I would also point out to any intelligent Chinese that the secrecy-oriented current rulers can't have their cake and eat it too, that their Great Firewall will only give hackers of all nationalities something to hone their skills with, and that it's the electronic equivalent of the Maginot line and the Index Librorum Prohibitorum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Prohibitorum

The Index Librorum Prohibitorum ("List of Prohibited Books") was a list of publications prohibited by the Roman Catholic Church. It was abolished on June 14, 1966 by Pope Paul VI.[1]

A first version (the Pauline Index) was promulgated by Pope Paul IV in 1559, and a revised and somewhat relaxed form (the Tridentine Index) was authorized at the Council of Trent. The promulgation of the Index marked the "turning-point in the freedom of enquiry" in the Catholic world.[2]

The avowed aim of the list was to protect the faith and morals of the faithful by preventing the reading of immoral books or works containing theological errors, although it also contained scientific works by leading astronomers such as Johannes Kepler. The various editions also contained the rules of the Church relating to the reading, selling and censorship of books. Manuscripts that passed inspection by official readers were printed with nihil obstat ("nothing forbids") or Imprimatur ("let it be printed") on the title page.

However, some of the scientific works on the Index (e.g. on the foundations of cosmology) are now routinely taught at Catholic universities worldwide, and Giordano Bruno whose works were on the Index now has a monument in Rome at the place where he was burned alive at the stake. The writings of Maria Valtorta that were on the Index have since received an imprimatur from a Roman Catholic bishop.[3] Mary Faustina Kowalska, who was on the Index, has since been declared a saint.[4][5] The developments since the abolition of the Index signify "the loss of relevance of the Index in the 21st century."[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall_of_China

* Using a proxy server outside China
* Companies can establish regional Web sites within China. This prevents their content from going through the Great Firewall of China; however, it requires companies to apply for local ICP licenses.
* The Great Firewall cannot filter secure traffic, such as traffic sent over virtual private network connections.
* Onion routing, such as Tor, can be used.
* Professional advice from any one of the many companies offering bypass services from outside of China, some of whom may be contacted by phone
* for more options, see Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China#Technical efforts at breaking_through

Speak of the Devil:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/28/china-restores-limited-internet-access

Normal internet access in China's troubled north-western region of Xinjiang may not be resumed for months, it has emerged, as officials begin to allow users to visit a small number of sites.

The internet was blocked across the region three weeks ago after inter-ethnic violence in Urumqi killed at least 197 people. Authorities also shut down text message services.

Mobile phone users are now receiving texts again – but only in the form of a daily update from the authorities and weather reports. The first, on Sunday, told them the security situation had improved and urged them not to believe rumours.

A block on calls to overseas numbers – from any phone – also remains in place.

Authorities told the official newspaper, China Daily, that there was now access to a small number of sites including internet banking, the online stock exchange and university enrolment services.

A statement from the Telecommunications Administration this weekend said that business and government-related sites would also reopen, although it did not indicate when.

"We have received no instruction on when to fully resume the public internet connection in Xinjiang," Haimiti Mijiti, vice-president of China Telecom's Xinjiang branch, told China Daily yesterday.

Asked about rumours that normal access would not be restored until after 1 October – the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China – Mijiti said: "There is no set time given yet."

An official in Urumqi told the Guardian that controls "might be" lifted after that date.

Nuer Baikeli, the governor of Xinjiang, told reporters recently: "Internet control was necessary ... It became a tool to spread false information."

The authorities said yesterday that false rumours were still circulating in the city – such as claims that people had taken hostage pensioners, women and children, demanding the release of suspects detained after the unrest.

Violent riots broke out on 5 July, after an initially peaceful protest by Uighurs angry at the killing of two Uighur workers by Han Chinese colleagues in Guangdong, southern China. Witnesses reported indiscriminate attacks on Han, mainly by young Uighur men.

Two days later Han revenge attackers targeted Uighurs. Text messaging services were suspended hours later.

The government says the dead included 137 Han and 46 Uighurs. Another 1,700 were injured.

China yesterday condemned Japan for allowing a visit by the exiled Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer, whom it accuses of instigating the violence.

She denies the claim and alleges Chinese security forces killed peaceful protesters.

"We are extremely dissatisfied that the Japanese government ignored the Chinese side's repeated, stern representations and insisted on letting Rebiya visit Japan to engage in anti-Chinese, splittist activities," the foreign ministry said on its website.

Beijing routinely criticises international trips by the exiled Tibetan leader the Dalai Lama, but has rarely commented on Kadeer's travels.

Details of her trip are unclear, although she will give a press conference tomorrow. A Japanese foreign ministry spokeswoman said there were no plans for official meetings with her.

When your opponent has to play defense in such a crippling way, and has nobody to play offense with, who wins.

Some mob violence is inevitable in that contest: we are talking about what happened in the UK in the 19th century scaled up by several orders of magnitude. It was not painless then and it is not now.

Way to miss the point. If unpolitical mob violence can break out because the social impact of a layoff isn't considered, China will come to be seen as a place too unstable for businesses, regardless of the reasons for such short-sightedness in the first place.

Thanks for the feedback, and remember, my mothers' people were/and/are the Cantonese.

[Marcello]

"Then why is Obama putting pressure on the Israelis to stop the settlements. Is
that what a rather powerful friend does?"

The USG makes some occasional noise every now and then about reining in Israel for PR reasons.
The say to Israel "Please, play nice", Israel means "Screw that" and the US says "See, we told them to play nice, besides those palestinians spoil everything".
Make no mistake, decisive pressure is never applied and not for lack of means; the establishment is simply with Israel lock, stock and barrel.

Above all it must be understood that Obama is not Kim Jong-Il. Even if he personally thinks that what Israel is doing sucks if the rest of the people that count think that it is the best thing since sliced bread then he cannot just disregard them and do as he wishes, it does not work like that.
So he may tell around that Israel ought to behave or that dialogue with Iran is a good idea or what not. But anything that will displease Israel too much will be torpedoed in Congress, nuked by the press and so on. There are also more subtle monkey wrenches that can be thrown in by factions in the government.
The above applies to a lot of others initiatives.

"The Turks aren't cool with it, and if they manage to get into the EU, they will not change their attitude one bit, ask a descendant of the Armenian disporta for further details."

Yes, the turkish premier made some strongly worded protests. Then they probably remembered about the $ 1.5 billion businness contracts they signed with China just the month before. Needless to say turkish foreign ministry officials got in apologetic mode...
And for getting in the EU, isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons.
More on this later.

[Marcello]

"And for getting in the EU, isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons.
More on this later."

Europe will not allow Turkey in for a variety of reasons ranging from cultural one (christian values etc.) to economic ones (nobody wanting another relatively poor country that is going to suck up subsidies for example). Nobody in Brussels has the balls to state that openly though, so the tactic is to delay ad infinitum...

Now to the rest.

"As noted in the article below, the Japanese have basically ignored the Chinese concern about her."

Sino-Japanese relations have never exactly been the most friendly international relations ever. Salt being rubbed on wounds every now and then.

"try asking Napoleon how to deal with MEND in Nigeria."

You might not like the answer though...
I would argue that Nigeria is a COIN bad case. Others places will lack such valuable and vulnerable infrastructures. China and perhaps some others countries have the option of simply flooding a restless province with manpower (both civilian and military) to an extent that it would simply be unthinkable for western forces, thus drowning resistance. It will be costly but doable.

"Way to miss the point. If unpolitical mob violence can break out because the social impact of a layoff isn't considered, China will come to be seen as a place too unstable for businesses, regardless of the reasons for such short-sightedness in the first place."

Some riots are not enough for that, period.
Recently there have been cases of french workers practically kidnapping managers of threatened factories. France is not going to be considered "too unstable for businesses" just for that.
For a bit of historical perspective, in the 1840s UK chartists were being shot by the army in the streets, that did not stop the industrial revolution.

[Marcello]

"That was an imbalance of a productive industrial economy in the North Vs. the agricultural-based economy of the South that could raise capital."

What I was getting at is, once the the South decided to leave the US did not send them flowers. They crushed them, even at great economic cost to themselves. Strategically it was the right call.

[The Dark Avenger]

"flooding a restless province with manpower (both civilian and military) to an extent that it would simply be unthinkable for western forces, thus drowning resistance"

If I were them, I would lay low for a while, and recruit Muslims who are appear to be Han Chinese. There is more than a few of them around, and some might be persuaded to be used in operations outside the hot spot.

Yes, I'd be taking the battle to some place far away where the security would be less tight, and take out a few power plants or bust open a dam or 2. It's even better if you do it in two highly separate locations that aren't under the Greater Firewall of China.

Then the Chinese flood the province, attempting to tighten their grip, while dealing with the loss of face both on the domestic and international stage.

Alternatively, since the Internet resource is effectively more "scarce", attack it and you will do more damage than when it was more "abundant', a reduced flow is easier to cut off than things as usual.

Protecting the Internet is a complex challenge, and there may well be hackers who
don't have to be in China proper in order to bring down the Internet there or make big holes in the Great Firewall.

6 months later, Operation Longer March continues.

You make an effort to avoid taking human lives, but you cause a lot of property damage, or take out the the route through which all Internet, etc. traffic comes through. Perhaps 3 or 4 locations this time,
upping the ante.

"Some riots are not enough for that, period."

I had an aunt who avoided internment in Shanghai during WWII, and she later lived in Hong Kong and had a lot of money.

I remember quite vividly how scared she was by the HK riots of 1967, and how she moved to Zurich and lived with her daughters' family. In fact they came to live here a while in America to get away from the violence and this included her daughter, her son-in-law and two grandchildren.

Rich people like security, and any government that can't provide that is not going to be popular with rich people.

"Recently there have been cases of french workers practically kidnapping managers of threatened factories. France is not going to be considered "too unstable for businesses" just for that."

Yes, and how many of them involved a mob of 30K men?:

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSPEK110881

"Up to 30,000 workers kept riot police at bay for nearly a day with bricks. About 100 people were injured, the Hong Kong-based Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy said."

...............................

HOW WILL OFFICIALS HANDLE THE INCIDENT?

The government has announced the privatisation deal is now off.

(ed)
It will probably try to find funds to pay off the workers to ensure there is no repetition of the violence.

No arrests have been announced by state media. Police would not comment.

Normally after incidents like this, the government floods the area with riot police and tightly restricts reporting to ensure nobody else is likewise encouraged to take to the streets.

WHAT WERE THE UNDERLYING CAUSES?

Recently, discontent over inequality and unemployment amid the economic downturn has exacerbated existing social frustration in China, with many cases of riots by angry citizens.

China's three northeastern provinces of Jilin, Heilongjiang and Liaoning are often referred to as the "rustbelt" -- once a hub of heavy industry with massive state-run firms, but which have been left behind by the country's economic boom.

Some of these companies were so large and bloated they employed either directly or indirectly entire towns or parts of cities. They ran their own schools, hospitals and newspapers and provided cradle-to-grave care for workers and their families.

Now millions of people have been laid off from these behemoths, with little hope of finding new jobs and having to live off meagre or non-existent pensions or social security.

HOW USUAL ARE PROTESTS ON THIS SCALE?

Not unheard of, but hardly regular occurences. China's public security forces normally nip protests in the bud, and come down hard on those seen as organising unrest or even independent unions.

But thousands of smaller scale "mass incidents" -- what the government terms protests -- erupt every year, over everything from pollution to land grabs.

The numerous incidents of workers kidnapping managers over business disputes, however, rarely result in death or serious injury.

Look, no one was arrested. How reassuring

Perhaps the French handle the problem better than do the Chinese. No argument from me.

What I was getting at is, once the the South decided to leave the US did not send them flowers. They crushed them, even at great economic cost to themselves. Strategically it was the right call.

You've never heard of Ft. Sumner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War#The_war_begins

The war begins

For more details on this topic, see Battle of Fort Sumter.

Lincoln's victory in the presidential election of 1860 triggered South Carolina's declaration of secession from the Union. By February 1861, six more Southern states made similar declarations. On February 7, the seven states adopted a provisional constitution for the Confederate States of America and established their temporary capital at Montgomery, Alabama. A pre-war February Peace Conference of 1861 met in Washington in a failed attempt at resolving the crisis. The remaining eight slave states rejected pleas to join the Confederacy. Confederate forces seized most of the federal forts within their boundaries. President Buchanan protested but made no military response aside from a failed attempt to resupply Fort Sumter via the ship Star of the West, which was fired upon by South Carolina forces and turned back before it reached the fort.[70] However, governors in Massachusetts, New York, and Pennsylvania quietly began buying weapons and training militia units.

On March 4, 1861, Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as President. In his inaugural address, he argued that the Constitution was a more perfect union than the earlier Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, that it was a binding contract, and called any secession "legally void".[71]

(ed)
He stated he had no intent to invade Southern states, nor did he intend to end slavery where it existed, but that he would use force to maintain possession of federal property. His speech closed with a plea for restoration of the bonds of union.[72]

The South sent delegations to Washington and offered to pay for the federal properties and enter into a peace treaty with the United States. Lincoln rejected any negotiations with Confederate agents on the grounds that the Confederacy was not a legitimate government, and that making any treaty with it would be tantamount to recognition of it as a sovereign government.[73] However, Secretary of State William Seward engaged in unauthorized and indirect negotiations that failed.[73]

Fort Sumter in Charleston, South Carolina, Fort Pickens and Fort Taylor were the remaining Union-held forts in the Confederacy, and Lincoln was determined to hold Fort Sumter. Under orders from Confederate President Jefferson Davis, troops controlled by the Confederate government under P. G. T. Beauregard bombarded the fort with artillery on April 12, forcing the fort's capitulation. Northerners rallied behind Lincoln's call for all of the states to send troops to recapture the forts and to preserve the Union. With the scale of the rebellion apparently small so far, Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers for 90 days.[74] For months before that, several Northern governors had discreetly readied their state militias; they began to move forces the next day.[75] Liberty Arsenal in Liberty, Missouri was seized eight days after Fort Sumter.

Unfortunately, there were some in the South who weren't listened to, as well:

http://www.lone-star.net/mall/texasinfo/shouston.htm

"To secede from the Union and set up another government would cause war. If you go to war with the United States, you will never conquer her, as she has the money and the men. If she does not whip you by guns, powder, and steel, she will starve you to death. It will take the flower of the country-the young men."

"In the name of the constitution of Texas, which has been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her."

"I declare that civil war is inevitable and is near at hand. When it comes the descendants of the heros of Lexington and Bunker Hill will be found equal in patriotism, courage and heroic endurance with the descendants of the heroes of Cowpens and Yorktown. For this reason I predict the civil war which is now at hand will be stubborn and of long duration."

The South had as much chance with the North as between a pit bull and an African lion.

My POV is that the South did the wrong thing, but then I have an ancestor who deserted from the Texas Rifles because of an arrears of pay.

Perhaps, it was the first documented sign of intelligence on my fathers side of the family.

[Marcello]

"Yes, I'd be taking the battle to some place far away where the security would be less tight, and take out a few power plants or bust open a dam or 2. It's even better if you do it in two highly separate locations that aren't under the Greater Firewall of China."

Dam busting isn't for terrorist commandos, they are tough nuts to crack even with heavy military ordnance; a bunch of morons with a couple of trucks of full of home made explosive just won't do. Thermoelectric plants are easier targets but still non trivial, impact is also a lot less than a bust dam. Further a one of a kind attack on infrastructure isn't going to do a lot.

The whole idea behind systemic sabotage as it has been described here is inflicting "death by a thousands cuts" by attacking vulnerable networks. A single fallen pylon, burst pipeline or damaged rail switch isn't the end of the world. A lot of them on a sustained basis are going to cripple the system. Further each of the attacks is cheap, it has a high rate of returns and defending effectively the whole network is almost impossible.

Such strategy is highly effective, yet it is used a lot less than it would seem reasonable to expect.

The chechens for example were more than willing to blow up oil pipelines, to the point the ones in the area had to be rerouted. Yet they never launched all out assault against the russian oil system, despite the fact that (or most of them at any rate) chechens could easily pass themselves for russians and there was a sizable chechen diaspora.
This also seem the norm across the board, ETA for examkple is attacking police forces as we speak while theoretically the power system would be a much easier and profitable target; in Italy power lines have been under sporadic attacks for over thirty years, but it never got painful and most efforts were always sucked up by conventional terrorism.

I suspect that a combination of logistics and psychology is at play limiting the amount of systemic attacks being carried out. Whatever it is it would probably apply to any hypothetical chinese rebels.

And now to the rest...

"Yes, and how many of them involved a mob of 30K men?:"

And how many countries have over a billion of people? BTW India has a lot of similar troubles in case you want to bring it up.

"I remember quite vividly how scared she was by the HK riots of 1967, and how she moved to Zurich and lived with her daughters' family."

And we all konw how Hong Kong became an economic basket case afterwards.Oh wait...

"You've never heard of Ft. Sumner?"

Yes, the point being? Are you really going to suggest that the North was happy with CSA had it not been for some hot head in Charleston?
Yourself are quoting that Licoln basically told southern delegates to go screw themselves when they offered compensation for the federal property...

States are never happy about just letting secessionists go, usually for a bunch of good reasons. In China a province seceding without at least paying a very high price
is likely to trigger disintegration, lots of local bureaucrats wanting to play Karimov or Lukashenko rather than being just cogs in a machine.

[Marcello]

"Yes, the point being? Are you really going to suggest that the North was happy with CSA had it not been for some hot head in Charleston?"

What I am trying to get across, in case it was not clear enough, is that the North was going to crush the South because it was a strategic imperative to do so. Fort Sumter made a politically convenient casus belli "they shot first" but in effects was just an excuse. In all likelyhood an other one could have been obtained elsewhere.

In regards to chinese riots, what I am trying to get across it is perfectly normal that a billion plus country undergoing the industrial revolution (the original one in Britain was not rosy either) is going to have a great deal of riots for a variety of reasons, from labor disputes to ethnic issues.
Given the size of the population such riots are going to be more numerous, bigger and occasionally violent than a country of the size of France; but this without necessarily reaching the density necessary to cause investors running away in a stampede or such, of which so far there is absolutely no indication.

[The Dark Avenger]

"Dam busting isn't for terrorist commandos, they are tough nuts to crack even with heavy military ordnance; a bunch of morons with a couple of trucks of full of home made explosive just won't do."

If we were talking about the North American continent, or non-Russian Europe, your response would be a fair and balanced point.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hYpJsYvAqzte8B8v39ApScjdrRew

Safety concerns at huge China dam project: auditor

(AFP) – Jul 20, 2009

BEIJING — "Developers building one of the world's biggest hydropower projects in southwest China are taking dangerous shortcuts, state media reported Tuesday, citing the national auditor.

Alarm bells started ringing after builders brought forward their timeframe to finish the Xiluodu dam by more than two years, the National Audit Office said in a report on the project, according to the China Daily newspaper.

"The quickened timeline increased the risks and difficulties, and added to the cost," the report said.

Budget costs were also out of control and the developers had illegally collected nearly 10 million yuan (1.46 million dollars) in unauthorised fees, the China Daily cited the report as saying, without giving further details.

The Xiluodu dam, being built along the upper reaches of the Yangtze River on the borders of mountainous Yunnan and Sichuan provinces, is expected to be the world's third biggest hydropower project.

With the new timeline, construction is expected to be finished by 2013, the China Daily reported.

However plans continue to change, with developers last month deciding to raise the height of the dam from 278 metres (917 feet) to 285.5 metres.

The construction director of the project, Hong Wenhao, told the China Daily that the auditor's report "overrated the problem" and that there were no safety issues to be concerned about.

"They have exaggerated the problems a little. We have explained to the auditors before that we have run the project according to a long-term plan," Hong said, according to the China Daily.

"There will be no safety risks under our current working procedures because we do not allow any shortcuts when we build major projects."

China's massive dam projects have been a source of controversy for years.

The government insists they provide a clean source of energy and control flooding, with the world-biggest Three Gorges dam the highest-profile example.

But critics say the dams often cause huge environmental problems and do little to control floods, while millions of people have been displaced to make way for them and the projects are often riddled with corruption."

(ed)
"The China Daily reported last month that several dams on China's Yellow River were close to collapse just a few years after they were built, and there were concerns that over 40 percent of the nation's reservoirs were unsafe."

That's what I call a target-rich environment, and depending on where the dams are on the Yangtze, you could end up flooding out Shanghai, which is basically right at sea level, with underground transportation to flood out as well.

Corruption, as with ordinary rust, is very destructive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sldbw1r4t8Q

From the comments:

the country and the people are nice, but the government is f*ckd up

"The whole idea behind systemic sabotage as it has been described here is inflicting "death by a thousands cuts" by attacking vulnerable networks. A single fallen pylon, burst pipeline or damaged rail switch isn't the end of the world. A lot of them on a sustained basis are going to cripple the system. Further each of the attacks is cheap, it has a high rate of returns and defending effectively the whole network is almost impossible."

Yes, if and when they find the perps behind this operation, that will be interesting:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10216151-94.html

"Vandals are to blame for the massive phone and Internet outage in Silicon Valley on Thursday, an AT&T representative has confirmed.

A story published by the San Francisco Chronicle and carried on SFGate.com first reported that police confirmed the phone and Internet outage that has left thousands of customers in the San Jose, Calif., area without phone or broadband Internet service was caused by vandals who had cut fiber-optic cables.

Police told the newspaper that four AT&T fiber-optic cables were severed shortly before 1:30 a.m. PDT along Monterey Highway north of Blossom Hill Road in South San Jose. A cable in San Carlos, Calif., owned by Sprint Nextel was also cut about two hours later, Crystal Davis, a Sprint spokeswoman confirmed.

Davis said that a manhole cover had been lifted, and the fiber underground had been cut. She confirmed that the Sprint fiber that was cut also appeared to be the work of vandals. But she explained that fiber cuts happen all the time, typically due to an accident.

"Fiber cuts happen more often than people think," she said. "Usually it happens accidentally when someone is drilling in the ground, landscaping a lawn or repairing some other infrastructure in the ground. We know this happens all the time, so we're ready to reroute traffic whenever we have to."

Earlier AT&T confirmed the incident and said it's working to resolve the problem. The company added that in addition to repairing the cut cables, it's also looking for alternative options to reroute traffic and get customers back online. And the company expects service to be restored in the new few hours.

"We are aware of a cable cut situation impacting services in Santa Clara and San Jose areas," a company spokesman said an e-mail. "We have crews on the scene. More details and repair ETAs will be shared as soon as possible. We apologize for any inconvenience this morning's service outage has caused."

The company spokesman also said AT&T is working with law enforcement officials to find who vandalized the cables. The company declined to comment further on how vandals were able to gain access to its cable infrastructure.

The fiber outage is affecting service for customers of AT&T and Verizon Wireless and Verizon broadband customers. Verizon uses AT&T's fiber-optic lines to connect its wireless and DSL service to the phone company's own national network. So a disruption in AT&T's fiber link also affects Verizon's service.

A source close to Verizon said the phone company has its own technicians on site to help AT&T repair the cut fiber as quickly as possible."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10217313-94.html

"AT&T has increased its reward to $250,000 for information that will help law enforcement arrest and convict vandals who cut the company's fiber-optic cables in San Jose, Calif., on Thursday, the company said in its Twitter feed."

...............................

"Wireless customers from almost every carrier were also without service, because AT&T's network is used to connect cell towers back to these carriers' respective national networks. Officials also said that residents in the San Jose/Santa Clara region were without emergency 911 service for much of the day."

Apparently, this wasn't just done with a bolt cutter or orchard lopers, specific kinds of tools was needed to carry this operation out.

"And how many countries have over a billion of people? BTW India has a lot of similar troubles in case you want to bring it up."

Yes, but you don't get the same kind of mass reaction to a layoff even in India, and Indian has so many more ethnicities and religious differences than the Chinese population that it's not ever funny.

In India that would be 25K.

At least they convicted someone of something once in a while:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/southasia/news/article_1486998.php/First_conviction_in_Indias_anti-Christian_riots_case_

New Delhi - "An Indian court sentenced a man to two years in jail for the first conviction in the anti-Christian violence in the eastern state of Orissa, media reports said Wednesday.

A special court at Phulbani, seat of the communally sensitive Kandhamal district, sentenced a 58-year-old man for setting fire to a house and threatening to murder a man from the minority Christian community, the NDTV network reported.

Kandhamal district, about 200 kilometres west of Orissa state capital Bhubaneshwar, saw widespread communal violence after murders of Hindu leader Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati and four of his aides in August.

Saraswati had been leading a campaign against conversion to Christianity in the area.

Scores of churches and houses of Christians were set on fire by Hindu groups, and villagers of both religions clashed. At least 40 people were killed in the state and more than 25,000 Christians were forced to flee after their homes were attacked by mobs.

Although Maoist militants operating in the area claimed responsibility for the murders, fanatical Hindu groups suspected Christian involvement and targeted the religious minority.

The government set up two fast-track courts to try cases related to the communal violence.

Nearly 700 cases have been filed in various police stations while police have arrested 1,000 people in connection with the riots, the PTI news agency reported.

The court decision came days after federal Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram toured the region and apologized to Christians for the violence against the community.

The minister assured the community that government agencies would work effectively to rehabilitate the victims."

"And we all konw how Hong Kong became an economic basket case afterwards.Oh wait..."

Nowhere in my observation did I state that she made the right move, but if she had stayed there and lived longer, she would've moved before Hong Kong was given back to the Mainland.

She and many Westerners of her generation who were born and raised in China before Mao came to power would not choose to live under any Communist regime.

"What I am trying to get across, in case it was not clear enough, is that the North was going to crush the South because it was a strategic imperative to do so. Fort Sumter made a politically convenient casus belli "they shot first" but in effects was just an excuse. In all likelyhood an other one could have been obtained elsewhere."

No, the South miscalculated that they could fend the North off with war for a while, and then sue for peace. As I indicated Sam Houston was accurate in his assessment of the situation at the time the states started seceding.

"In China a province seceding without at least paying a very high price is likely to trigger disintegration, lots of local bureaucrats wanting to play Karimov or Lukashenko rather than being just cogs in a machine."

That depends on whether the more ambitious types are in the civilian sector or the Red Army.

"In regards to chinese riots, what I am trying to get across it is perfectly normal that a billion plus country undergoing the industrial revolution (the original one in Britain was not rosy either) is going to have a great deal of riots for a variety of reasons, from labor disputes to ethnic issues."

But where is the smart money going these days?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Analysis/Indias-consumers-draw-investors-from-China-story/articleshow/4651035.cms

HONG KONG/MUMBAI

"While investors hope that consumer spending growth in China will eventually balance its export dependence, in the short-term it
is India that presents more opportunity. Economists crow over the long-term domestic growth prospects in both emerging Asian giants, which is likely to be led by a young generation of spenders eager to buy clothes, computers, cars and other goods.

Until recently, China’s massive government stimulus spending worth 6% of gross domestic product was the biggest draw in Asia for investors chasing growth. However, last month’s stunning election victory by the Congress-led coalition, which allowed the grouping to secure a parliamentary majority, has turned the heads of some fund managers to the consumer-oriented sectors in India. In addition, India’s valuations are cheaper, suggesting more upside potential for any investments.

“For the first time in 12 years, I am more confident of India than China because India has made good macro improvements,” said Stephen Roach, chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia, while in Mumbai. “It has well-managed companies, entrepreneurial talent, an English-speaking population, well-developed capital markets and now the political will to reform,” he said.

Investors have had every reason to look at India’s consumer market anyhow. The median age in the billion-plus population is 25 years and private-sector consumption makes up about 60% of economic activity. Consulting group AT Kearney says the sector will grow 63% between 2008 and 2013 to become a $833-billion market. By comparison, the median age in China’s billion-plus population is slightly older, at 30 years, and the private sector makes up a smaller part of the economy at around 40%.

“Changes in consumption patterns in China will occur gradually. It won’t happen overnight. Indian consumers have shown themselves willing to spend more of their income, and changes in the government will act as a catalyst more immediately in the next 12 months,” said Robert Tucker, investment director of Asian equities at Halbis, a unit of HSBC Global Asset Management in Hong Kong. Since Beijing announced spending of 4 trillion yuan ($588 billion) in November to support its economy, portfolio flows have chased China’s domestic growth story."

.....................................

"Ninety-day rolling total returns of the FTSE index for India are 74%, compared with China’s 57% and Hong Kong’s 45%. On March 9, when a global equity rally began, 90-day total returns for the FTSE India showed a loss of 13%. They were flat for Hong Kong and were up 20% for China. Within India, retailers Pantaloon and Shopper’s Stop have outperformed the BSE by a wide margin in the last 90 days by more than doubling their returns compared with the index’s 78%."

"Given the size of the population such riots are going to be more numerous, bigger and occasionally violent than a country of the size of France; but this without necessarily reaching the density necessary to cause investors running away in a stampede or such, of which so far there is absolutely no indication."

You think that it would be business as usual in France if a mob of 3K people killed a manager and managed to hold the police at bay for a day with bricks and nothing more?

That's also assuming the region is attractive to investors in the first place, from the Reuters link above:

"Recently, discontent over inequality and unemployment amid the economic downturn has exacerbated existing social frustration in China, with many cases of riots by angry citizens.

China's three northeastern provinces of Jilin, Heilongjiang and Liaoning are often referred to as the "rustbelt" -- once a hub of heavy industry with massive state-run firms, but which have been left behind by the country's economic boom.

Some of these companies were so large and bloated they employed either directly or indirectly entire towns or parts of cities. They ran their own schools, hospitals and newspapers and provided cradle-to-grave care for workers and their families.

Now millions of people have been laid off from these behemoths, with little hope of finding new jobs and having to live off meagre or non-existent pensions or social security."

This isn't a roadbump in the Chinese Industrial Revolution.

Also, unlike the Britain of 1840s, a complete crackdown on all organized opposition leads to the increased probability of unorganized opposition breaking out, which isn't something that happens in France and India as often as in China, from all accounts so far.

Places like France and India, where there is democratic feedback possible, are safer in the long run than authoritarian regimes which have a strength similar to that of concrete, strong up to a certain point, but brittle if the pressure goes up because of concrete's lack of flexibility is a vunerability, as is the lack of social flexibility demonstrated by the Chinese government so far.

[Marcello]

"No, the South miscalculated that they could fend the North off with war for a while, and then sue for peace. As I indicated Sam Houston was accurate in his assessment of the situation at the time the states started seceding."

Let's not dance around this anymore OK?

I originally stated:

"As a further food for thought you might want to consider for example what happened the last time someone tried to secede from the US.
Further some reflection how such a thing might be seen by the average chinese when some feel good westerner lectures him on how he should basically let his country fall apart in the name of self determination."

I meant, in case it was not clear, that it is rather hypocritical lecturing somebody else on how they should be ready to give in to secessionism when you hail from a country which is what it is today (and you don't seem eager to comndemn the US for not having left the CSA around) to a large extent because it crushed secessionism, even resorting to total war practices.
I further argued that the North was indeed hell bent on crushing the South.

What I got were a series of valid but unrelated replies on arguments ranging from economics to southern strategy that neither addressed nor refuted the point made above.

I can only come to the conclusion that either I was no clear or you have realized that lecturing the chinese on this point is a case of "do as we say, not as we have done" and you prefer talking about something else.

More on the rest later.

[The Dark Avenger]

"in case it was not clear, that it is rather hypocritical lecturing somebody else on how they should be ready to give in to secessionism"

If that is your interpretation of my posts here, then again you've missed the point.

I've been talking about the weaknesses of the Chinese government due to their autocratic rule, their tolerance of corruption, and other factors that favor secessionism.

If the leadership were to clean up its' act, and not build schools that fall apart in earthquakes, or tolerate shoddy workmanship in their dams, etc., then they would be making themselves stronger, as well as making the phrase "Serve the people" more meaningful than the routine American send-off of "Have a nice day.".

"What I got were a series of valid but unrelated replies on arguments ranging from economics to southern strategy that neither addressed nor refuted the point made above."

No, you've been fighting a strawman of your own making.

You've been arguing from the beginning that machine guns are one way to keep things from falling apart, which is arrant nonsense given the factors I've talked about here.

Your precious machine guns can't be everywhere, or fix destroyed schoolhouses, repair shoddy dams, or be used in any effective way to combat cyberhacking/sabotage against those who are at large in and out of China.

If the Chinese leadership had any collective intelligence, they would pay attention to the factors I listed and fix them.

If I were for a secessionist approach to the Chinese question, I would be heartened by the fact that the above seems unlikely to happen.

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/03/journal_when_ch.html

"Here's some blue sky thinking on a new topic. Enjoy.

One of the most important tests of the stability of the new globally connected system is going to be China. The conventional wisdom sees China as a threat due to its rapidly growing economic and military strength. The real threat, as laid out in the "The Dark Side of China's Rise" by Minxin Pei in this month's Foreign Policy magazine, is that China is an dynamically unstable system that is in deep decay. He accurately and with detail describes a China that is rapidly growing but is almost bereft of social, health, environmental, security, and trust systems that dampen the impact of critical shocks.

So, what happens when China's high performance, globally connected capitalist economy which is flying at dangerously high speeds hits the inevitable speed bump? The answer is: it will derail (hollow out and fragment). The chaos it will produce in SE Asia is the real threat we have to deal with. Predicting the black swan that kicks off the death spiral is impossible, but as we have seen in other export-oriented Asian economies the shock will likely be economic. At that point, the dream of upward ascent and rising expectations, reinforced by global media, will be seen as a lie.

In anticipation of this, the Chinese government is following the lead of many other nations by radically improving the capabilities of its paramilitary force for domestic security (to the tune of one million men). However, this many not be enough. Global guerrilla theory indicates that the endemic corruption will combine with the same forces of anti-state guerrilla action we have seen in other places in an attempt to disconnect portions of China from the central government. With nearly half of the population in urban locations, a heavy dependence on centralized infrastructure, and rampant connectivity to the global environment (despite efforts of the government to limit it), China is ripe for this. Faced with non-state foes that feed off of economic distress and can disrupt centralized mechanisms of control at will, China's government will quickly hollow out. With nearly zero trust in the government already, the burden of pushing people to their primary loyalties will be easy to meet. This is going to be interesting to watch."

..........................................

"Question: If China wasn't at risk of derailing, why would the government be working hard on a one million plus strong paramilitary force for domestic security?"

What Robb wrote 3 years ago is still true today.

I would put it to you that the schools lost to the 2008 earthquake, along with the dams and perhaps other infrastructure as well that may have been built badly are signs of the decay JR references.

"I can only come to the conclusion that either I was no clear or you have realized that lecturing the chinese on this point is a case of "do as we say, not as we have done" and you prefer talking about something else."

Has there been any place in America where natural disasters have exposed shoddy construction, or where dams built a few years ago are on the edge of collapse?

The response to Katrina and the attempts at Potemkin management(using TV lights in a speech by the President in Jackson Square to imply that the electricity came back on, "You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie", etc.), were a factor in the 2006 and perhaps even the 2008 American elections.

I'm not going to argue with someone who mistakes analysis for advocacy, and can't see something as plain as a white cat sleeping in a pile of coal while engaging in arm-waving at the same time.

[Marcello]

"I'm not going to argue with someone who mistakes analysis for advocacy, and can't see something as plain as a white cat sleeping in a pile of coal while engaging in arm-waving at the same time."

With my last comment I was referring to the
seccessionist problem, the "economics" talked about being that of the US South you referred in a previous post. Now, as I said, to the rest.

I will be frank: I believe that the probability that China has of blowing up due to the stress it is undergoing is at least in the double digit range. I don't however regard that as a foregone conclusion.

I also note that several states in the area (South Korea, Taiwan...)which are nice democracies now did get there only after a phase of state directed capitalism and authoritarian (with bloody moments and non trivial amount of coruption).
Pure coincidence? I think not.

Further in a situation with many similarieties with that of China the central government throwing their hands up and essentially saying "we're sorry, we suck, now do whatever you want" has not generated a particular happy outcome. Incidentally the following democracy, in absence of institutions such as a solid middle class, was essentially worse than useless.

"Yes, if and when they find the perps behind this operation, that will be interesting:"

As I said, these sabotages happen a lot less than their effectiviness would suggest. No real idea why, this particular cat has been out of the bag for several years now after all.

"That depends on whether the more ambitious types are in the civilian sector or the Red Army."

It is questionable that it makes any difference at all.
For example Dudayev (first chechen president) was a soviet general. Lukashenko (Belarus dictator) was ex state farm director turned party apparatchick. Nazarbayev (Kazakhstan) and Karimov (Uzbekistan espot) came from technical and party backgrounds. Shevardnadze (former Georgia ruler) was an ex USSR foreign minister.

Once the centre gave up, power was up for grabs for people from a wide variety of backgrounds.
What I have read about the CCP and the chinese army does not make me think they would behave very differently in similar circumstances.

"You think that it would be business as usual in France if a mob of 3K people killed a manager and managed to hold the police at bay for a day with bricks and nothing more?"

Ok, I see I will have to start ot bring out the heavy artillery on this.
Check this:

http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/site/voice_stories/the_battle_of_blair_mountainrevisited/issue/29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

Say what you want, but I haven't ever heard the chinese using the air force against disgruntled workers. I guess you would have said then the USA was doomed.

[Marcello]

"But where is the smart money going these days?"

Interestingly enough the article you posted lays out a case for short terms gains, mostly on things like consumption patterns and such. The supposedly fearsome riots aren't even mentioned.

"If the leadership were to clean up its' act, and not build schools that fall apart in earthquakes, or tolerate shoddy workmanship in their dams"

Nearly 70 dams were heavily damaged in the 2008 eartquake as per water ministry statements, none collapsed IIRC. Which makes me think that depicting chinese dams as being made of cardboard may have some truth but is probably overstated. Ditto for their vulnerability to terrorists.

"Has there been any place in America where natural disasters have exposed shoddy construction, or where dams built a few years ago are on the edge of collapse?"

Be thankful you don't get many big earthquakes very often. Here in Italy they bring out all the crooked and shoddily (often recent) built hospitals, schools and houses.

[Marcello]

"Interestingly enough the article you posted lays out a case for short terms gains, mostly on things like consumption patterns and such."

Nor it could have been different. After all...

Rampant pollution, just like in China:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143694
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,493033,00.html

Desperate peasants committing suicide by the thousands:
http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/15/stories/2007111554771300.htm

Widespread corruption, just like China:
http://www.cmsindia.org/cms/events/corruption.pdf
Actually India is ranked worse than the the PRC in terms of corruption (not that I would trust such rankings 100% but still)
http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table

Multiple ongoing insurgencies, terrorism and a whole host of others problems.
Just because you have a parliament or multiple parties your socioeconomic issues don't go away.

The CCP will have to reform the government system, something which to a limited extent is already underway and may or may not be successful, or perish eventually being swept away.

[The Dark Avenger]

"I don't however regard that as a foregone conclusion."

"The optimist proclaims that this is the best of possible worlds, the pessimist fears that this is so."

"I also note that several states in the area (South Korea, Taiwan...)which are nice democracies now did get there only after a phase of state directed capitalism and authoritarian (with bloody moments and non trivial amount of coruption).
Pure coincidence? I think not."

Yes, but in those cases, power was ceded to the masses by a gradual process as well as economic reform being undertaken at the same time, and there were turning points that one way or another threw out the old, and in with the new.

The nations you're thinking of, did not, as the Chinese regime has, chose to make any organized resistance to the Government impossible, especially in the purely political sphere.

Also, had the technology of the time been as now, a lot of the stuff in Korea and Taiwan may have played out differently.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119654/quotes

Bug: Place projectile weapon on the ground.

Edgar: You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Bug: Your proposal is acceptable.

"Further in a situation with many similarieties with that of China the central government throwing their hands up and essentially saying "we're sorry, we suck, now do whatever you want" has not generated a particular happy outcome. Incidentally the following democracy, in absence of institutions such as a solid middle class, was essentially worse than useless."

That's not what I'm saying the leadership has to do if they are to stay in power, and I have no vain hopes of a Chinese democratic society evolving in Mainland China to a bright and glorious future after the ruling clique simply and quietly steps aside.

I'm saying that they have demonstrated how much they don't understand the Internet by cracking down on it in response to the riots, and that they are going down the wrong path. Their paranoia style of governing has led to many pathologies that are unique to the Chinese situation and weren't present in other developing nations going through the same phase of growth.

"As I said, these sabotages happen a lot less than their effectiviness would suggest. No real idea why, this particular cat has been out of the bag for several years now after all."

Cutting the 9/11 services for a while is pretty damn effective in my book, as a prelude to the second/third/fourth stage of an operation, and the 250K$ reward is a sign that the companies are taking this seriously.

Perhaps it was a trial run for an operation in another country. That's what I would do, cut and run.

"Once the centre gave up, power was up for grabs for people from a wide variety of backgrounds."

Yes, but the Chinese have effectively vested power in the People's Army in the past, the same Army that 20 years ago shot the people in Tienanmen Square because it was deemed necessary by the rulers.

3 years ago, they feel the need for a million-man paramilitary organization.

Why?

In case the People's Army decides to swing their barrels the wrong way, perhaps.

"What I have read about the CCP and the chinese army does not make me think they would behave very differently in similar circumstances."

FWIW, there was a Chinese general who defected her to America in the '70s.

I had a relative who was his 'handler' on a per diem basis for the government.

When I asked why he was doing this a full decade and more after the defection, he said the government found him useful because he knew all the players, so he could tell them about someone in the Army or Party because he was in the Army for a long time already.

"Say what you want, but I haven't ever heard the chinese using the air force against disgruntled workers. I guess you would have said then the USA was doomed."

Yes, hopefully they've learned the lesson that America has lately that to shoot first and ask questions later might not be a good strategy, even with AQ.

"In the final analysis, management's success was a Pyrrhic victory that helped lead to a much larger and stronger organized labor movement in many other industries and labor union affiliations and umbrella organizations like the American Federation of Labor (AFL) and Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO). The Battle of Blair Mountain was an important part of the labor movement. In April 2008, Blair Mountain was finally chosen for the list of protected places on the National Register of Historic Places."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Attack by air

"Numerous accounts described airplanes carrying white assailants firing rifles and dropping firebombs on buildings, homes, and fleeing families. The planes, six biplane two-seater trainers left over from World War I, were dispatched from the nearby Curtis Field (now defunct) outside of Tulsa.[10] White law enforcement officials later claimed the sole purpose of the planes was to provide reconnaissance and protect whites against what they described as a "Negro uprising."[10] However, eyewitness accounts and testimony from the survivors confirmed that on the morning of June 1, the planes dropped incendiary bombs and fired rifles at black Tulsans on the ground.[10]

Even one white newspaper in Tulsa reported that airplanes circled over Greenwood during the riot. That account, however, had the planes working in conjunction with the police department to survey the riot.[citation needed]

Several groups of blacks attempted to organize a defense, but were ultimately overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of whites and weapons. Many blacks, conceding defeat, surrendered. Still others returned fire, ultimately losing their lives.

As the fires spread northward through Greenwood, countless black families continued to flee. Many died when trapped by the flames."

Did you ever hear of the Black Legion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legion_(political_movement)

"The Black Legion was an additional organization within the Ku Klux Klan and operated in the United States in the 1930s. The organization was founded by William Shepard in east central Ohio. [1] The group's total membership was estimated between 20,000 and 30,000, centered in Detroit, Michigan, though the Legion was also highly active in Ohio, and one of its self-described leaders, Virgil "Bert" Effinger, lived and worked in Lima, Ohio.

The Associated Press described the organization on May 31, 1936 "as a group of loosely federated night-riding bands operating in several States without central discipline or common purpose beyond the enforcement by lash and pistol of individual leaders' notions of 'Americanism.'" The death of Charles Poole, kidnapped and murdered in southwest Detroit, caused authorities to finally arrest and successfully try and convict a group of twelve men, thereby ending the reign of the Black Legion.

The Black Legion was organized along paramilitary lines and had five brigades, 16 regiments, 64 battalions, and 256 companies. Although its members boasted that there were one million legionnaires in Michigan, it probably had only between 20,000 and 30,000 members in the state in the 1930s, one third of whom lived in Detroit."

"Interestingly enough the article you posted lays out a case for short terms gains, mostly on things like consumption patterns and such. The supposedly fearsome riots aren't even mentioned."

No, the takeaway was somewhat buried in the remarks of the gentleman at Morgan Stanley.
The Indians has demonstrated that they have have effective reform that is an attractive feature for investors, and this is the competitive advantage they have over the Chinese, along with having millions of English-speaking citizens, a factor that Chinese cannot immediately match in the short term.

Nearly 70 dams were heavily damaged in the 2008 eartquake as per water ministry statements, none collapsed IIRC. Which makes me think that depicting chinese dams as being made of cardboard may have some truth but is probably overstated. Ditto for their vulnerability to terrorists.

Not man-built ones, no:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Sichuan_earthquake#The_.22quake_lakes.22

"The "quake lakes"

As a result of the magnitude 8.0 earthquake and the many strong aftershocks, many rivers became blocked by large landslides, which resulted in the formation of "quake lakes" behind the blockages; these massive amounts of water were pooling up at a very high rate behind the natural landslide dams and it was feared that the blockages would eventually crumble under the weight of the ever-increasing water mass,[124] potentially endangering the lives of millions of people living downstream. As of May 27, 2008, 34 lakes had formed due to earthquake debris blocking and damming rivers, and it was estimated that 28 of them were still of potential danger to the local people. Entire villages had to be evacuated because of the resultant flooding.[125]

The most precarious of these quake-lakes was the one located in the extremely difficult terrain at Tangjiashan mountain, accessible only by foot or air; an Mi-26T heavy lift helicopter belonging to the China Flying Dragon Special Aviation Company was used to bring heavy earthmoving tractors to the affected location.[126] This operation was coupled with the work done by PLAAF Mi-17 helicopters bringing in PLA engineering corps, explosive specialists and other personnel to join 1,200 soldiers who arrived on site by foot. Five tons of fuel to operate the machinery was airlifted to the site, where a sluice was constructed to allow the safe discharge of the bottlenecked water. Downstream, more than 200,000 people were evacuated from Mianyang by June 1 in anticipation of the dam bursting."

and we haven't been doing too well with our own self-inflicted problems as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

"The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km2) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion gallons (4.2 million m³) of coal fly ash slurry was released. The coal-fired power plant, located across the Clinch River from the city of Kingston, uses ponds to dewater the fly ash, a byproduct of coal combustion, which is then stored in wet form in dredge cells. The slurry (a mixture of fly ash and water) traveled across the Emory River and its Swan Pond embayment, on to the opposite shore, covering up to 300 acres (1.2 km2) of the surrounding land, damaging homes and flowing up and down stream in nearby waterways such as the Emory River and Clinch River (tributaries of the Tennessee River). It was the largest fly ash release in United States history."

"Be thankful you don't get many big earthquakes very often. Here in Italy they bring out all the crooked and shoddily (often recent) built hospitals, schools and houses."

I've been in a few small ones, one in St Louis, MO, the Whittier Narrows and the Loma Preita when I lived in San Jose. The area where I live feels a lot of earthquakes around the state, but isn't at a risk for a big one because we're far away from major faultlines.

http://insidechinatoday.net/2009/06/30/57-believe-shoddy-construction-caused-building-collapse/

"With the recent collapse of a 13 story high building in Shanghai’s Minhang District, an online poll was conducted by a Chinese website on June 29th. Results as of 4:30pm on the same day, indicated 57% of the participants believe that constructors who “skimp on the job and stint on materials” caused the collapse.

The collapse of this business building triggered relocation and withdrawals from tenants of these particular apartments. Some tenants in nearby buildings also promptly withdrew their rental contracts.

According to the same online poll, 93% of the voters agreed that tenants in the district should relocate. This collapse has brought about anxiety regarding the construction quality of commercial residential housing. 38% in the recent poll felt that quality is the highest priority when considering housing purchases.

According to bloggers, the real estate developers’ profit margin is between 200 ~ 300%. The Golden Bridge Corporation also used the land for dual purposes. They sold small parts on the corners of the land plot to local malefactors. These were developed into illegal small shop fronts."